For this post, respond to the ideas that a fellow student has shared during the in-class formal discussion of Acts I and II of The Crucible
(Wednesday and Thursday). If you agree, extend the other student's
ideas by explaining why they are so essential and meaningful. If you
disagree, politely explain why you disagree and offer an alternative
understanding or interpretation.
This post will be due on Friday, not Thursday. Thanks, Mr. Telles.
I liked Dillion's question about how someone could condemn so many to death but believe in a religion that preaches things like mercy. I think that the people in the Crucible were somewhat insincere in their beliefs on that. I think that religion was just being used as an excuse to justify the executions. In the book, many people have little earthly conflicts and were waiting to get back at the people causing them. The witch craft hysteria was the perfect excuse, as religion was central to their lives. Religion could be used to give them solid justification to get rid of the opponent. They just used religion in that case to gain power over the community. They knew that no one really did anything bad, and had earthly motives for getting rid of them. Some probably did believe it for religious reasons as they were genuinely religious people as well. Witchcraft was also pretty real to them because things like the devil were as real as they thought God was and God and supernatural forces controlled their world according to them. Religion was a form of social control too, tying into using religion for power. What I wonder is if a community like our own today could fall into such moral panic over something? And what?
ReplyDeleteMy favorite comment/question that a student made today during The Crucible discussion was Steven's statement that everyone in the story has a different motive for accusing one another of witchcraft. The book really demonstrates how people (especially the people in Crucible) will do anything to keep the target off their backs and continue to blend into the crowd. A great example of this situation was at the end of Act I where Betty and Abigail (Parris' daughter and niece) blatantly accused five different people of experimenting with witchcraft. To add to the obvious scapegoating, the people the two girls deliberately blurt out happened to be part of the destitute community of Salem. Which is that surprising because it is always easier to blame the people "below" you in social status. Another example of how Steven's comment on peoples motives is relevant in the story is when Abigail lies to Judge Danforth about Mary Warren. In Act III of Crucible, Danforth brings Mary Warren into court for questioning in association with witchcraft. In John Proctors home, there was a mysterious little doll that he claims Mary Warren made for his wife Elizabeth. The only problem was; located under the dress was a needle lodged into the dolls stomach. Mary Warren claims she didn't do it whatsoever every time she was asked about it and tries to use young Abigail as a witness. That's where it all turned for the worst. Instead of protecting Mary Warren, Abigail lies straight to the judges face and says that she didn't see her make the doll. Things become even more deranged when Abigail begins to become "possessed" by Mary Warren in the shape of a bird spirit during the middle of the trial, just to stress the fact that Mary Warren is in fact a witch. All in all, Steven's comment during the discussion on how each character in The Crucible (even though this post is basically about Abigail) has their own methodical motives to stay out of the limelight of interrogation about witchcraft really stands true. And to sabotage the people around them, no matter how close they are to each other.
ReplyDeleteDuring the discussions in my class, we talked a lot about Mary Warren, the Proctor’s servant, and I also wrote about her in my one-paragraph summary of acts one and two. She is definitely a very complicated and dynamic character, and is somehow caught between the ways of innocence and guilt as far as witchcraft goes in The Crucible. She acts on a lot and says a lot, mostly in the middle and last parts of act two, which can be risky and confusing according to the ways the person reading sees it. In my summary I was also sure to include how Mary was attending court meetings on the multiple ideas of witchcraft and tried to bring back some supposedly true and useful information, depending on if she choses to tell the truth or not. A few students in my class mentioned the fact that she acts so innocent but probably is guilty, and I definitely agree. It connects to the fact that it is not simply said to us which side she is picking, John’s or the girl’s, but since she is a part of what seems like one of the climaxes of the story, which is when Elizabeth gets arrested, it makes it more captivating. Elizabeth’s arrest is an important part of the book, and I think Mary Warren’s suspicious hint of guilt really is something to be said about that.
ReplyDeleteThe most important comment that I found very important and agreeable during today and yesterdays discussion was Alexia’s comment about Mary Warren acting innocent even when she wasn’t. For example when Mary Warren followed Betty and Abigail into the woods she told everyone that she just saw it happen, and didn’t do anything, but for all we know Mary Warren could have done just as much as Abigail did. Mary Warren also acted very innocent when Reverend Hale found the voodoo doll with a needle sticking through it that Mary made, she acted as if she didn’t purposely put it there, and framed Elizabeth of voodoo because Abigail was found with a needle in her stomach like the voodoo doll was. I believe that Abigail watched Mary make the doll and accidentally stuck the needle in there and planned to frame Elizabeth for practicing voodoo, or Mary and Abigail have teamed up to accuse other people without getting themselves in trouble, either one is likely but I think it is more likely for them to be teaming up. I’ve noticed that Mary Warren is somewhat a follower of Abigail. Either Mary is following Abigail for the power, or she is following Abigail so she doesn’t turn on her and accuse her for something she didn’t do to get Mary killed, like she accused Elizabeth, Goody Osburn and others. So far, when reading Act 1 and Act 2 of The Crucible Abigail and Mary Warren are two of the most suspicious characters that seem very dishonest and untrustworthy. In my opinion, It seems to be as if Abigail is creating a cult to manipulate and accuse other people of practicing witchcraft, and she’s the leader.
ReplyDeleteOne of the comments that stood out the most to me today during our discussion over "The Crucible" by Arthur Miller, was the one made by Danielle, where she said how she felt as though Mary Warren was a character she felt was dishonest and couldn't be trusted. I completely agreed one hundred percent. I felt from the very beginning that I couldn't trust her, something about her just seems off. I wouldn't say that she's my least favorite character but she's definitely not one of my favorites. She seems to be a nice enough character, but she's one of those girls that talks big, but once the pressure is on, becomes spineless. She acts like one of those tough girls who will speak her mind, but when push comes to shove, she's more of a follower if you ask me. This is very important to the play because Mary Warren is one of the key characters. She was one of the girls who was found in the woods "dancing" with Tituba. She doesn't really know what to do on her own, due to her obvious lack of confidence, so she only really speaks up when around the younger girls. Her character traits just make me feel a tad uneasy. When she is introduced in the play, it talks about how she is naive and lonely...I however, disagree. I think that she may be a lot less naive than everyone thinks she is. I feel as though she might actually just be acting innocent, but have something evil brewing inside of her. She may be timid in front of the adults for many various reasons, but I have this queasy feeling that she's hiding something. I could be wrong, but my gut instinct about her is that she's not as innocent as she appears. I feel like she actually likes the attention from the accusations against her, because before that she was just a seventeen year old peasant girl who was lonely and naive, but now, she has climbed up the social ladder by being accused. Even if the publication of Mary is negative, I feel like she's not that upset over all the attention she is suddenly getting. I know the play describes her as innocent and all, but I have a feeling this girl isn't who she says she is.
ReplyDeleteDuring the discussion I thought the conversation that took place about Abigail’s obsession was intriguing. Once I thought about it, I concluded that it was weird that Abigail is only willing to be with John. It’s been stated that she is pretty, so why doesn't she just move on? Then I realized that Abigail doesn’t really have any parents. Parris is like her adoptive parent and he isn’t exactly the perfect Dad. He’s probably more concerned in promoting his appearance then raising a mentally unstable teenager. Also, we’ve found out that most of Abigail’s village was murdered in an indian raid right in front of her. I think that Abigail is deeply-scarred and after losing everything, she needed attention other than pity. So naturally, Abigail clung to the first non-pity entity she could find. However, for some reason Abigail can’t get past that part in her life. Maybe she’s clinging to John because he’s was the first person to treat her differently? For whatever reason, Abigail is just taking it way too far. She basically sentences multiple people to death just to kill one person. Additionally, she even went as far as to stick a needle into her own stomach to accuse Elizabeth. What’s worse though is that she’s using children as evil elves to do her bidding. Does she not realize how many lives she’s messing up? Personally, I feel like Abigail is just on an evil rampage and is extremely selfish. I can’t think of any way that life in the village could go back to normal at this point.
ReplyDelete~Alexia
A fellow classmate that I believe shared a very understandable and agreeable question today was Matthew Heckman. I understood very well where he was coming from with his question and I was wondering the same exact thing. His question was “If everyone is calling each other witches and pointing fingers why don’t the town folks of Salem all get together and rebel against the court system?” I agree with his question, but there are a lot of motives that all the characters had to keep the blame off themselves. No one wants to be dubbed as a witch, so they point fingers. They don’t rebel because they cannot all come together as a town because of all their different ideas and beliefs of witchcraft. The witch trials empower several characters in the play that are already isolated in Salem society. Abigail’s claim of witchcraft and devil-worship immediately has the attention of the court. Abigail uses this situation to accuse Elizabeth Proctor and have her sent to jail. Tituba’s status is lower than anyone else’s status in the play, since she is black, manages to get the blame off herself by accusing others. Reverend Parris strengthens his position within the village by making scapegoats of people like Proctor who question his power. The wealthy Thomas Putnam gets revenge on Francis Nurse. He does this by getting Rebecca, Francis’s wife, convicted of the murders of Ann Putnam’s babies. All of these characters try to benefit themselves and they will do anything for that. Reputation plays an important role in this environment. All the town folks want is to maintain their reputation; they fear that the sins of their friends and associates will taint their names. Madness and exaggeration tears apart this community.
ReplyDeleteOverall, I thought that the formal discussion of “The Crucible” was very enjoyable and provided me with further knowledge of the play and allowed me to understand many insightful opinions of other students. Today in the class discussion, I told that I had uneasy feelings about the character Mary Warren and I was surprised that several other people agreed with me. I think Alexia Marnoto brought up the best point in this portion of the discussion by saying that Mary Warren always tries to front as innocent when she’s not and that she’s a follower. Today’s discussion also helped me understand where the climax is in Act II. Honestly, when Mr.Telles asked us to identify the climax I was instantly bewildered because I was unclear of what exactly the climax was. This discussion helped me realize that Elizabeth being arrested was the real climax. Also in this portion of discussion, it became clear to me that being framed for Voodoo was actually the reason that Elizabeth was arrested. However, the opinion that stood out to me the most of the entire discussion was when Dylan Viau said that social pressure may make it hard for someone on trial to tell the truth from lies and whether what they’re saying is real or fake. I agreed with this statement completely and I believed that many characters in “The Crucible” follow this statement very much. I think this especially pertains to Elizabeth and that the social pressure is what makes her just practically give up and get arrested instead of seriously defending herself. I also believe that because Mary is dishonest the social pressure is a reason that she absolutely would not want to be up on the stands. All in all, the formal discussion that we had in class on “The Crucible” was extremely helpful, understandable and insightful.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Dylan about Hale being an ass. He comes into Salem and thinks he's in charge of everyone and everything. He expects people to do whatever he says because he was called in. He doesn't seem to have any common sense, he believes every word of the people accusing others of witchcraft. Either that or he doesn't believe them, but convicts other people anyway in order to get more people to trust him so he can gain more power. Either way I hope something bad happens to him at the end.
ReplyDeleteThe formal discussion today in class was very helpful and interesting. I was at first confused with the book, but I learned more when others were bringing up facts. Something that I found interesting was Matt’s comment which states, “If everyone is blaming each other for being witches and pointing fingers at mostly everyone, why doesn't the people living their just rebel against the court system?” I believe that their are several reasons because of this. One example would be that not everyone can be accused, because they would have to find somewhere to put them such as jail, but if the jails are all full then a punishment more severe such as death would have to occur which could make people hectic. Another reason why people wouldn't rebel is because not only does everyone not want the finger pointing at them, but they also want to be a hero and the one who gets “rewarded” for catching the bad people. Also, if you are trying to rebel and tell people to get on board, they might be hesitant to trust you which could cause people to turn against you. If people start to turn against you, more and more people will accuse you for doing something which could put all the blame on you. Lastly, people do not want to disagree with the judges because the judges do not want to admit they are wrong so the judges could possibly accuse them for witchcraft. This how I feel about Matt’s statement with the difficulties in Salem.
ReplyDeleteIn the crucible, everyone has their own motives that cause them to be involved with the witch trials. Someone brought this up in one of our discussions in class. People do not just jump on the witch bandwagon in Salem just because it is fun. Not all of Salem is involved with these witches. Take Mrs. Putnam for example. She lost seven of her daughters at birth. She only has one daughter currently living. Her name is Ruth. She was caught performing Witch rituals with the others, and now she is ill from what we know. Having Mrs. Putnam's mindset, she is most likely putting two and two together. She believes that the same rituals that made Ruth ill, killed her seven daughters. The truth of the matter is she is trying to find something or someone to put the blame on for the unexpected, untimely deaths of her daughters. That is Mrs. Putnam's motive. There are others people as well like Abigail. Abagail had couitus with John Procter, and she wants him all to herself, but John Proctor has a wife name Elizabeth. Abigail has to get her out of the picture so she could be with John. So, she tries to frame her by stabbing herself with a metal rod. She then has Mary Warren make a voodoo doll with a nail in it, and place it in the proctor house to look as if she had somehow stabbed Abagail through the doll and witchcraft ceremonies. Abigail is therefore very deep into the whole witchcraft situation. Finally, John Proctor and his group of cronies completely despise Parris, and they want him dismissed out of the church. This is their motive, and they can prove it through making Parris look like the bad guy. This witchcraft conundrum all began around Parris's daughter. Since then, It has led to hypocrisy, insanity, and anarchy. This is the perfect opportunity for the group to reveal to the town of Salem his supposed "wrong doings". All of this and more has been developing in Salem. Not all of Salem's citizens though. Just those particular individuals who have motives. The ones who are seeking revenge, answers, and blame. I do agree with this unanimous student. Not everyone is seeking a part in this fiasco.
ReplyDeleteIn the formal dissucusion on The Crucible in class a point was brought up about Mary Warren that most including myself agreed apon. Mary Warren has qualities that make her seem dishonest and untrustworthy she also perceives herself as an innocent young girl that could do no harm. I find Mary Warren very dislike able as a character in The Crucible. In act one and act two it is hard for the reader to distinguish wich side Mary is helping. She could be assisting Abbigale and the other girls or Mr. Procter. Mary could also be helping both of them whenever it seemed to convinced her. Mary Warren has scenes in act one and act two where you can't reconigize who she is assisting an example is in act two during the climax of the play when Elizabeth was being arrested for practicing vudo. In this act the reader isn't told if Mary put the needle in the doll to help get Elizabeth indicted or if she even knew if the needle was placed inside the doll by Abbigale. Mary just isn't like able in act one and act two in The Crucible.
DeleteMarybeth Colby
A statement I thought that was very good was when Danielle said “ I have an uneasy feeling about Mary Warren.” I think Mary Warren definitely seems a little dishonest. From Act 1 I could tell that something was off about Mary Warren. She seems like she is so innocent but really she may not be. For example Mary Warren acts like she is tough and nothing can stop her but when it comes down to it she breaks under pressure. When she got taken away for the trials she cried and innocently yelled how she did not do anything. She did do something. Mary was the one who made the Voodoo doll that was very much like witchcraft. Everyone immediately assumes she is a witch because of this. Another thing she did was in Act 1 she was caught dancing in the woods with Tituba. There are many hints that Mary Warren was a witch throughout there city. Most people in the city are on the witchcraft bandwagon and when people heard about what she has done they all begin to think she is a witch. I do think that Mary Warren is nice but there’s something wrong. I just feel that there is something weird about her. It seems to me that she acts like the victim but maybe she actually is the real suspect. She puts it in peoples mind that she in “lonely” and “naïve” but maybe she is not, it could be part of her act. My feelings could definitely be wrong but my mind is telling me not to trust her. I feel that in Act 3 Mary Warren is going to struggle. After seeing her be taken to court I don’t think there will be much of a future for her. She is either going to have to accuse more people of witchcraft or die.
ReplyDeleteMatthew Heckman
During class discussion it was said that Mary Warren was dishonest and untrustworthy. While this may be true, I don’t believe it is because she was as guilty as the other girls, but rather that she didn’t have enough confidence in herself or the strength of character to stand up for what she believed in. She was easily influenced and manipulated by the others. Though she may have been dishonest and trustworthy, it was because she was afraid of the other girls, not because she was trying to hurt innocent people. She was somewhat protecting herself or looking out for herself, even if it was at the cost of innocent lives. Even though her motivation wasn’t to hurt others or to gain anything from accusing others.
ReplyDeleteIt is not that hard to understand her situation because she probably believed that it was either her life or someone else’s. The difference between her and the other girls is that she acted solely out of self-preservation, while others acted for personal gain and to hurt others.
Mary is motivated by fear while others act out of bitterness and are motivated by gain. For example, when she tells the girls that they have to tell the adults what they were doing in the forest and Abigail threatens her, she gives in to Abigail. Later when Proctor forces her to testify against the girls, she gives in to him out of fear of damnation, but quickly sides with the girls when she realizes that they will turn on her and accuse her of bewitching them. Therefore, unlike what others have said, it is not a matter of trying to figure out which side she is on. She is on her own side and looks out for herself. Again, many people would do the same if they were placed in her situation.